Meet Mad Men Creator Matt Weiner
- by Jeanne Wolf
- April, 2013
Photo credit Michael Yarish/AMC
Matt Weiner, the creator of Mad Men, has a shelf full of Emmys and Golden Globes not to mention critical raves for the hit series now just about to launch its sixth season. The retro drama about a 1960s ad agency has left its mark on everything from fashion to the way we look at gender roles. So why is Weiner the first to admit he stays a little nervous about being at the top?
Maybe because he’s hardly an overnight success. He can laugh now about all the time he spent after grad school writing scripts, while his architect wife supported the family. Along the way, he wrote the pilot for Mad Men, but received nothing but rejections.
Weiner’s break came when he started writing for The Sopranos. That show was so hot it made his reputation, but even that wasn’t enough to sell HBO on Mad Men. Eventually it was AMC that took the gamble.
Weiner is charming—a great talker—but notoriously close-mouthed about where the series is going and whether the end is in sight. He’s already made his first bid to move to the big screen writing and directing with last fall’s You Are Here starring Zach Galifianakis and Jenna Fischer.
Question: How has success changed you?
Matt Weiner: I’m less combative. Finding an audience of even a few people after being rejected for a long time kind of recalibrates your perception of humanity, believe it or not. But I’m superstitious about the word success. It took awhile to realize that this really happened after years of privation and rejection. Ironically I’m the person who wrote, ‘Happiness is the moment before you need more happiness.’ So even the premise of the question, ‘How do you feel about success?’ is terrifying.
Q: What would you rewrite about yourself?
MW: I’ve got plenty of bad qualities that have not disappeared. I’m working on being more patient. That can be difficult to be around. I am very exacting. I think I can come off seeming unappreciative of the people closest to me sometimes because I have the complete expectation that I’m entitled to their affection. That’s probably my biggest fault—impatience.
Q: Are you different at home?
MW: I’m like every dad, I’m a joke. [He has four sons.] My anger’s a joke. My dissatisfaction’s a joke. My rules are a joke. I’m always fighting to enforce my authority. I work so much that when I come home and say, ‘Hey everybody, don’t do it this way,’ they’re like, ‘If you were here you’d know this is the way we do it.’ It’s like I’m powerless. You know what, once you take physical violence out of the equation, you really have no control over another person. [Laughs]
Q: Have you tried being a diplomat around the house?
MW: I lose my temper. I’ve got a bad temper. I’ll get mad and be swearing and using the ‘F’ word in the kitchen. Afterwards I’m so embarrassed and I look over at my kids in the next room and I’m like, ‘God, I hope they didn’t hear that.’ And I see they are laughing but trying to cover it up so they won’t embarrass me.
Q: What inspired you to be a writer and to stick with that unrealistic ambition?
MW: I had a lot of support from my parents. They loved and admired writers. We have a big poster of Ernest Hemingway in our hallway. I think that that mattered to me that they thought writing could be a heroic profession and a writer could make like a valuable contribution.
Q: What made you aim so high?
MW: I was a terrible student. I had a lot of mentors, teachers who encouraged me, kind of told me whether I believed it or not that I was a late bloomer. I gave a speech at my high school graduation and a dad in my class told me that I could be a TV writer. It wasn’t just any dad, it was Allan Burns who created The Mary Tyler Moore Show. And so I had that in my hip pocket. And then I went to college and did some acting and wrote poetry. Then I went to film school and was out of work for 5 years even though I was writing all the time. I tell people the hardest part about it was not knowing that it was going to be 5 years—it wasn’t that I was going do it, it was those years of not knowing when I was going to be a success.
Q: Don Draper the main character on the show says, ‘Everyone thinks this is temporary.’ Do you think that?
MW: I am extremely aware that the end is coming but not when. I’ve always had to sweat. I never have been sure Mad Men was going to go on again. I live and die by this thing. I want people to say, ‘That was the best season of the show ever.’ I want them to progressively say during the season, ‘That was the best episode of the show ever!’ I am always aspiring to keep it new and fresh. But you’re going to lose if you’re always trying to top yourself. You end up doing something crazy.
Q: You are pretty secretive about the plots of the episodes.
MW: I’m not trying to tease people. I just don’t want to give away to viewers what’s coming because not knowing what is going to happen is part of what keeps people interested. I think fans of the show, the ones who really love it, don’t want to know. But it is hard to talk about a new season without getting specific. At the beginning of a season I’m always like, ‘I’m starting a whole new story. If you don’t like it, then it’s not for you. But it’s not because it’s not as good as last year. It’s just different.’ No matter what happens you’ll be able to understand it. It’s a TV show, it’s not War and Peace.
Q: Are there lessons that having a huge hit have taught you?
MW: At a certain point you realize that being mature in this job is not thinking that you can do it all by yourself. You can’t forget that other people have the best stuff to offer and you need to be excited when you hear something you didn’t think about. I try to remember that I don’t always give enough praise. I get so much attention for my contribution to the series, and I wish I could share the glory a little bit more. I always mention the work of my producers and co-writers but it seldom gets printed. And I want people to know that that’s not my fault. That I try to share the wealth.
Q: What’s the right way to handle fame?
MW: I remember watching Jennifer Lawrence fall on the stairs as she went up to accept her Oscar. And I just thought, ‘If I were to write an acceptance speech, it would start like that.’ That moment to me was kind of like instant humility. She recovered with such grace and good humor. That’s a hard thing for people to understand. You just don’t want to attract the evil eye, become arrogant, rest on your laurels, and take it for granted.
Q: Does the great acceptance of the show give you more creative confidence?
MW: Trying to put a dream into words is a lot of what it is at the beginning of the season. And the ship leaves the port but you still don’t know if it’s any good. That’s the thing that never goes away. You don’t even know, even when the season’s over, even when you win an award, if you like pulled it off. And you know anyone who says they’re only interested in satisfying themselves is a fool.
Smash Star Anjelica Huston
- by Jeanne Wolf
- Saturday Evening Post
Born of Hollywood royalty, the Smash star, now 61, has found a new inner confidence. Illustration by John Jay Cabuay.
When Anjelica Huston enters a room, she commands your attention just as she does on screen. She’s an imposing presence, even a little intimidating—she’s just so tall!—until she breaks into that charming, mischievous grin. It’s quickly obvious that the actress is nothing like the scheming, tough-as-nails producer, Eileen Rand, whom she plays on the NBC series, Smash.
As Huston speaks, revealing a self-deprecating sense of humor that’s thoroughly endearing, it’s hard to separate the drama in her life from the memorable characters she’s brought to life, from the mob wife in Prizzi’s Honor to Morticia in The Addams Family.
Huston was born into Hollywood royalty. Her dad was legendary director John Huston. Her mother, John’s fourth wife, was Italian ballerina, Enrica “Ricki” Soma. Houseguests ranged from Marlon Brando to John Paul Sartre and John Steinbeck. She began acting in small roles, mainly in her father’s films. Then, just as she was coming into her own, her mother was killed in a car accident. That changed the direction of her life.
She moved to New York, and as a young woman, her grace, stature, and angular good looks led her to modeling. Richard Avedon photographed her for Vogue. The big change in her life came when her father cast her in Prizzi’s Honor, a part that earned her an Oscar and made her a star. She co-starred with her longtime love Jack Nicholson. They were together for 16 years, but once she got famous there was a lot more interest in them as a couple—always talk about the ups and downs of that relationship.
Finally, they split—another big life-changer.
When she and Nicholson parted company, Hollywood watched to see if she’d ever find her Mr. Right. The answer came when she walked down the aisle with celebrated sculptor Robert Graham–known for works like the Olympic Gateway at the Los Angeles Coliseum, the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Memorial in D.C., and the Duke Ellington Monument in New York’s Central Park. The handsome artist and the beautiful actress were a standout couple in the arenas of entertainment and art.
Graham also loved to draw beautiful women and their bodies. There was one star-studded showing of his work where people teased him about nude drawings that looked an awful lot like Anjelica. She casually deflected the questions by talking about “my fantastic husband” and playing up his many other accomplishments. The two were inseparable, so his sudden death from a heart attack four years ago left her shattered. Her many friends within and without Hollywood rallied around her, but she credits Smash—her first venture into series television—with coming at a “vital time” and finally filling a void in her life.
Question: I have known you for years. I listen to the laugh in your voice and you’ve got the greatest smile. Why do they keep casting you as these stern women like Eileen in Smash?
Anjelica Huston: [Laughing] Well, Eileen does have a good sense of humor. But it’s true, they like me to be these slightly sinister characters. It’s good to play against type, I guess.
“Sometimes I’m a wimp, and other days I think I can conquer the world.” Photo courtesy NBC Universal.
Q: And what would you say your type is?
AH: I really don’t match any stereotype. I never felt like I “fit in.” That’s probably what makes me a great observer.
Q: But doesn’t your character’s feistiness reflect you maybe just a little?
AH: I would like to be as scrappy as Eileen. I can certainly wrap my brain around her scrappiness. But sometimes I’m a wimp, and other days I think I can conquer the world. I wish I could plan it out a bit better.
Q: You get some steamy romantic scenes on the show. Do you get a kick out of that?
AH: It all depends on who with. But it certainly livens things up—particularly at my age. I remember at the very outset, two years ago, I said to the producers, ‘Please, give me a love interest.’ I think it’s important to see strong women who also have a very vulnerable side and who are allowed to have a sexy side.
Q: As the years pass, what has changed for you?
AH: The older I get, the more I look for a good time. I remember when I was in my 20s and 30s, I was always in some fight with a boyfriend or involved in some drama, something to feel bad about. I feel so the opposite of that now. I just like to have a good time, smile, and be with my friends. You know, tell a story, have a drink. I’m certainly not looking for angst.
Q: You were married for 16 years to artist Robert Graham. Was being married part of what changed your outlook?
AH: I think so. We had a lot of fun. We understood each other. We both had big egos. [Laughs] We both felt very, very lucky. He was a great guy. Of course we fought some times. We’re not robots. You have to have differences and then you come together. There’s no better thing than that unity sort of sense of purpose. Although, I have to say, being with a partner can be difficult too. It’s like ‘Oh, is that what you’re going to wear?’ ‘Well, what do you mean I look fat?’ It’s funny. When I was getting ready to go out the other night I thought, there’s absolutely nobody in my life to tell me how I should look, how I should act, or what I should say. In fact, I doubt that there’s anyone who cares very much one way or the other what I do! And in a way, that was very liberating.
Q: But you do come home to an empty house.
AH: That’s just what the circumstance is right now. You have to roll with the punches. After Bob’s death, I did learn a lot. It was actually fascinating to see that if I emphasized the positive I was able to still have a good time. That was sort of shocking to me as a suddenly single person.
Q: Before you got married, your most famous relationship was with Jack Nicholson, which certainly had its highs and lows.
AH: Jack is somebody I’ve adored in my life and will continue to love forever. I don’t take him lightly. As it happens, we had a really lovely conversation on the phone yesterday—a conversation that started off a little bumpy and wound up just completely wonderful. That’s a real relationship. Real relationships have a continuity, and Jack and I have a deep abiding love and affection for each other. I’m proud that we’ve gotten through some very tough times together.
Q: Could there be another man in your future?
AH: It would have to be the right one. Someone who it would make sense to have a love with. Someone who wanted to share that. I can’t say I’m looking for it. I don’t think I’ve ever really looked for it. I’ve never been one of those women who said, ‘Fix me up on a date.’ I always just feel like if the time is right, it’ll come to you. I’ve worked with horses all my life and there’s something that every person who’s ever worked with a horse knows. You can go into a field and try to catch a horse and chase your horse all over the place and you’ll never get your hands on it. But if you go into a field and sit down on the grass, whoa! Probably within 5 minutes that horse will come to you. I think that’s how it is with people too.
Q: There have been a lot of changes in your life recently—an important part in a TV series—the first time you’ve done series television.
AH: All of a sudden things have gotten very busy. But that’s a good thing. I think one should always be optimistic. I think it’s people who reflect too much on what they’ve lost who become incapable of forward motion. But forward motion is important. Change is important. My Los Angeles house is for sale now. It’s very bittersweet for me because while it’s too large for me as a single person, it’s the house I shared with Bob.
Q: You grew up with two very strong parents [director John Huston and ballerina Ricki Soma]. How did they influence you?
AH: I didn’t have a conventional upbringing but they both gave me an awareness of beauty, which is what my life is about. They also gave me a lot to read, and they had very interesting people around. I was constantly exposed to the possibilities in life and alternative ways of thinking and being and existing. They always showed me that one didn’t have to go along with the herd. At the same time, they emphasized that it was possible to do that gracefully.
Q: There were a lot of Hollywood luminaries in your life who were friends of your renowned family. Many of them are still your friends.
AH: It’s kind of great. It’s like being a part of a big, wonderful diverse mad family.
Q: You’ve had your share of fame, and weekly TV brings even more fans. How do they treat you?
AH: I like them. They’ve always been a very nice group of people who’ve never intruded on me or been aggressive. But I do like the people who like me. It sounds really corny, doesn’t it? I’ll go along with Sally Field on that one.
Q: You’re writing a memoir. How is that going?
AH: I’m kind of in the midst of it, and it’s daunting, but on the other hand, it feels quite cathartic. Since I’m in the process, it’s a bit hard to talk about. I remember quite a lot, I have to say. Sometimes I wish I remembered a bit less.
Q: For example?
AH: Well, I remember that when my mother died I was going through that very difficult period where I was just becoming a woman. And she was sort of having to make the adjustments to that.
Q: Your life has been fascinating. What can you say that you learned over the years?
AH: I’ve always felt like I’ve kind of had an inherent knowledge about things, like that horse knowledge I was talking about. I wouldn’t call it wisdom exactly. But you recognize certain patterns in yourself and other people, and you learn what you’re good at and what you’re not so good at. Hopefully I’ve made a little progress over the years. I’m very Cancerian by nature, crablike, and I don’t like a lot of big changes in my life. I’m happy when I’m on the ride. It’s just thinking about getting on the plane that I don’t like.
Q: Who’s the biggest influence in your life now?
AH: I guess it’s still Bob. I find myself wondering what he would have thought—more than I wonder what my parents would have thought. I still kind of dress for him—like his eyes are on me.
Illustration by Jody Hewgill
By: Jeanne Wolf
Saturday Evening Post
In Issue: January/February 2013
Shirley MacLaine has lived a lot in her 78 years. She also famously insists that she’s lived centuries more in past lives.
Outrageously outspoken with a rapier wit, the Academy Award-winning actress, singer, and dancer is a Hollywood powerhouse. As a best-selling author, she’s fascinated us with her mystical preoccupation in everything from reincarnation to psychics and spirit guides. Even skeptics agree that her exploration of the far-out is an entertaining ride. Whether guesting on a talk show or walking the red carpet she always manages to get a gasp along with the laughs at her no-holds-barred one-liners.
MacLaine hasn’t given a thought to retiring or even slowing down—why should she? Her deliciously nasty turn as an old woman a small town loves to hate in Bernie, opposite Jack Black, earned rave reviews. Her latest book of witty observations, I’m Over All That: And Other Confessions, shows how she winks at looking back and looking forward.
And now she’s got a juicy co-starring role in the hugely popular Emmy-winning Masterpiece series Downton Abbey, as Lady Cora’s mother Martha Levinson, who arrives from New York to upset the household. That, of course, pits her against another icon of the big screen, Dame Maggie Smith, who plays the fearsome Dowager Countess Violet Crawley.
As we move forward in the new year, who better than MacLaine to give us a little perspective in her own irresistibly humorous and thought-provoking style?
Q & A:
“I have not had the experience of depression.”
Photo courtesy Block-Korenbrot, Inc.
Question: Do you believe in making New Year’s resolutions?
Shirley MacLaine: Absolutely not. I am a student of change. I don’t want to make resolutions because I know I’m not going to keep them.
Q: Do you even celebrate New Year’s Eve?
SM: New Year’s as a party means nothing to me. I am seeing what’s happening right now from devastating storms to unemployment and people struggling to make ends meet.
Q: Any predictions that there might be some significant changes?
SM: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think there’s going to be a lot of pain and difficulty in adjusting to kind of what I call a new frequency. Everybody’s talking so fast and thinking so fast and moving so fast, and I think that they’re missing the really important stuff.
Q: I know how important a sense of humor is to you. No matter how serious you might be playing a dramatic part, when I think of you off screen, I envision you smiling.
SM: Yep. I don’t know why. I don’t know. There’s a twinkle about me. I have not had the experience of depression. I know it’s a big statement to make.
Q: That’s startling.
SM: Yes. I know it is. I don’t think it makes me a shallow person. When you’re as curious as I am, there’s always something to learn. Maybe it’s also because I’m a dancer. That’s how I learned discipline, mental and physical.
Q: You’ve talked about the contradictions of comedy and tragedy, both on screen and off. Can you experience both at once?
SM: Oh sure. That’s life. I figure when you get past 35, if you haven’t learned that, then you better go back and start another one.
Q: So what is life to you?
SM: I think it’s a cross between what’s real and what’s comedy. When you analyze it you realize life itself is kind of a funny joke. Look at what’s happening in the world. If you don’t laugh, you’ve got serious problems. I think comedy—a sense of humor—must be born in certain people. Maybe it starts when you are a little kid and the dog steps on your foot. You either think it’s funny or an imposition. I think I have a gift of quirky insanity. We need more comedy, more laughter, and a more ironic way of thinking about life.
Q: What about the other emotions?
SM: Of course there’s fear and even hate. That’s when you need to say, ‘Well wait a minute now, what’s the opposing force, not hate but love.’ Of course, you might also say, ‘What is love?’ We’ve just made it so romanticized in this part of the world that you can’t really sustain it.
Q: How do you keep love alive?
SM: As I say when I answer all profound questions: ‘With a good hat and a comfortable pair of shoes.’ I learned that when I did the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage in 1994, hiking through the rugged country of northern Spain to the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela. I thought if I’m going to write books about metaphysical stuff, I better really understand what it’s like to be totally alone and have nothing. All I really needed was fresh water, a good hat to protect me from the sun, and a good pair of shoes. [You can read about the journey in MacLaine’s book The Camino : A Journey of the Spirit.—Editor]
Q: Do you believe in loving someone forever?
SM: I think the need to promise to be with someone until the end of your days is foolish. And we don’t even want to have a discussion about monogamy. It just makes me laugh. I think the challenge of love is more about sustaining a relationship with yourself. If you don’t have that with yourself, you can’t have it with others. Relationships keep changing, too. So I guess the only thing consistent is change, really. That’s what I’m learning. I’m much more attracted and, I think always have been, to peace and humor than I am to sexuality.
Q: Who has been most influential in your personal life?
SM: Everybody I’m involved with at the time. This is my point: Everything keeps changing. Sometimes I look in my address book and see the names of people that I had the deepest and most personal, intimate relationships with 15 years ago, and I don’t even talk to them now. Nothing dramatic happened. It’s just that new things occurred.
MacLaine joins the cast of Downton Abbey. Photo © Carnival Film & Television Limited 2012 for MASTERPIECE.
Q: You’ve said, ‘I made a decision to live my life in public. I wasn’t going to go hiding.’ Would you still say that if you were a young actress today with paparazzi and fanatical fans following you everywhere?
SM: You know that is so hard on those kids. I’m so concerned for them. This is a terrible thing what’s happening. It’s putting into perspective the price of the necessity to be famous. Everybody seems to want to be acknowledged by others to the extent that they’re not happy with themselves as they are. And that probably is the lesson here. Whatever their reasons for wanting to be famous have really impacted their personal growth.
Q: Weren’t you ever hounded by the paparazzi?
SM: I think they didn’t bother me because I’d already told them everything anyway. But on the other hand, when I was growing up and at the height of my popularity in those days, they weren’t as ferocious as they are now.
Q: What about the electronic, computer-driven world we live in?
SM: This whole thing with technology? Oh my God, the other day I was in a movie theater and the person in front of me was looking at his iPad watching another movie while he’s looking at the screen. And I thought, ‘I won’t go to dinner with somebody who’s going to text me across the table.’
Q: What’s something you’d like to change about yourself?
SM: I’m impatient with everybody alive. This is my big problem. I’ve been impatient since age 2. Ask the makeup people. After 20 minutes, that’s it. I’m agitated by then. I want to go to the stuff that compels me, the scene I’m going to play. I’ve always been that way. I think it was because I was a gypsy when I was young.
Q: Are you still into yoga?
SM: I used to do 75 postures. I was really good. I was an advanced student. I don’t think I could do three now. Oh my Lord, oh the things we should or shouldn’t do. I try to listen to my body and my body says, ‘You can’t put yourself in that twisted, upper-down dog pose.’ But I think it was a mistake to give it up.
Q: What are you doing to keep fit and looking so terrific?
SM: I’ve succumbed more to aerobic things like hiking. I’ve been talked into thinking that cardiovascular exercise, or whatever, is good for your blood pressure. I just can’t get into the habitual thing of, ‘I must do this every day.’ You know. ‘Mondays is my day to walk. Tuesdays is my day to meditate.’ I can’t do that.
Q: How much do you think you know about your own past lives?
SM: Well, enough about them for the moment. There’s so much going on in the world that’s so insane that I’m more interested in this life right now.
Q: I reread Sage-ing While Age-ing. I imagine when you express yourself in performance or as a writer you’re learning about yourself as much as you’re learning about the universe.
SM: That’s right. That’s why I act. I love to play characters that, who knows, I may or may not have been. I’ve come to this understanding that, that life itself is show business. If people get that perspective they’ll see that they are the writer, producer, actor, and star and financier and distributor of their own drama and their own comedy. Everybody can be empowered in that way when you look at it all, like it’s an entertainment basically.
MacLaine has a new juicy co-starring role in the hugely popular Emmy-winning Masterpiece series Downton Abbey, as Lady Cora’s mother Martha Levinson, who arrives from New York to upset the household. Photo © Carnival Film & Television Limited 2012 for MASTERPIECE.
Q: Were you a fan of the series?
SM: Actually I hadn’t even watched it until my hairdresser told me how much she loved it. So I tuned in. Shortly afterward, they signed me to play Martha Levinson so I sat down and viewed them all … and I just became addicted.
Q: Your wardrobe is quite stunning. Was it a challenge to get all dressed up?
SM: Those authentic costumes took some work. The corsets were really demanding and the buttons on everything were so small. I understood the class system after getting ready every morning to go on set. I realized women of that time couldn’t get it together without a couple of servants.
Q: Of course, don’t you have a couple of servants that put on your jeans in the morning?
SM: That’s true. [Laughs.] But I’m wondering which came first, the servants or the wardrobe? Did they make a class system out of the necessities of the wardrobe, or was it the other way around?
Q: What was it like going toe-to-toe with Maggie Smith?
SM: We get along famously. She told me that we had met 40 years ago backstage at the Oscars next to the catering table. I was up for something, and there was this big chocolate cake sitting there. And somebody else won. Maggie said, ‘You know what you did, dear? You tucked right into that chocolate cake and said, “#*&% it. I don’t care if I’m thin ever again.”’ I didn’t remember it. Maggie has a better memory. She’s one year younger than I am.
From the archive. Images ©1963 SEPS/Curtis Licensing; © 1961 SEPS/Curtis Licensing.
As Shirley MacLaine rose to fame in the 1960s, the Post featured her in several cover stories. Some memorable quotes from our April 22, 1961, article, “I Call on Shirley MacLaine,” by Pete Martin.
On Not Being a Sex Goddess
“I’ve heard that certain studios have put on big campaigns to sell the images of some women stars as ‘sex goddesses.’ Nobody ever thought of doing that for me. It would be a kook notion anyhow, for you can’t make cheese out of chalk.”
On Her First Role
“I remember it vividly. I was four, and I did a number called An Apple for the Teacher at the Mosque Theater in Richmond, Virginia, the city where my parents were living at the time. I tripped on the curtain, the audience laughed and, little ham that I was, I ate it up. After that I tripped on that curtain every time I passed it.”
On Frank Sinatra
“The truth is that Frank Sinatra’s capacity for friendship is all-encompassing. He doesn’t get a good press, but I know a Frank that those who write about him don’t know. Maybe they’ve had run-ins with him. That hasn’t happened to me. Frank’s a bundle of contradictions. At times he’s unreasonable, at times temperamental. He can be compassionate and insensitive, gentle and rough. But he can also be as kind as anyone I’ve ever known. If a person has all those contradictions, and you still find him good to know, you’ve got to call him your friend.”
On The Rat Pack
“I’ve read about a group called The Clan. I know you have too. This group is supposed to consist of Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr., Peter Lawford, Joey Bishop, and me, although some writers make the list longer. … If anyone did ask me about it, I’d have to tell him that I don’t believe such a thing exists. I’ve never heard anyone in our group use the term; we don’t hold offices or elect officers. What does exist is this: There are certain people in Hollywood who enjoy being with each other, and I’m lucky enough to be one of them. … It’s true that the chemistry between Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and me is good. It’s also fun, and it’s rare. But there’s nothing evil, or even questionable, about this relationship.”
For the full text of this and other Post stories on MacLaine, visit saturdayeveningpost.com/shirley-maclaine.